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Michael NybyMichael Nyby 

Request to Restart

I would first like to show you the article where my question originates, and I'll first do that with a link:

Updating AVG Antivirus Virus definitions and application version

Now I wish to show you a first screen grab that I have reduced a bit to make it fit a little better into this tight box provided for this forum:

Well, let me see if this first post is allowed and then maybe I will be allowed to place an image here that is presently stored on my computer and not stored on some:

"http:, https:, data:, //, / , or relative URL schemes" -- as that screen grab I now have shows.

I am trying very hard to keep frustration levels down to a manageable level, and by that I mean that I am not only seriously close to just dumping this company's products, but also just going straight to the Unites States Justice Department with all the proof they need to see that your company is engaged in some seriously nasty false advertising.

Now I am willing to work with you folks to improve your situation, but it is hard.  Very hard.
Michael NybyMichael Nyby
That's what I thought.  I have to do a post first.

Now for image number one:

User-added image

So that is very clear above about what part of that article the link is for in my opening post is for --- where I am working in that article.

Next image is where my question is centered:

User-added image

My question, as you might have guessed, is what form will the request to restart take?

What does your company show us that indicates to us that a restart is necessary?

And I will apologize now for the frustartion that I was showing in the OP, but I was also not kidding.

Your company is going to have to clean its act or I am going to be contacting the justice departments of nations all over this planet.  I am not even close to joking.  I am a cancer patient with but a few years to live, if I'm lucky, and I have played cat-and-mouse with Avast for many years and now it stops.

Let's try to work together, okay?  It really would be nice to keep the lawyers out of this.
Michael NybyMichael Nyby
And, yes, that word should be "frustration" --- and frustration can cause spelling mistakes.  Of course, an editing tool would be very polite, but you don't trust us.  Not so sure I blame you for that.
Balasubramanian SBalasubramanian S (AVG) 
Hi Michael,

We would like to inform you that the restart of your computer might be necessary for some of the critical updates that we release. 
If our program doesn't requests a restart, then it is not necessary to reboot the computer.
Could you explain what is the exact difficulty that you experience with the manual update of AVG?
Michael NybyMichael Nyby
Sir, I need to know exactly what the request to restart will look like.
Will it be some sort of popup?  A popup with a link for restarting my computer?  Maybe just a popup that I then have to go to the normal location on my computer to hit the restart button?

I need need to see an exact answer.  Please.  Maybe an image will be okay.

This is a critical question I am asking you, sir.  Please be very careful to answer with more specific (exact) information.

And I thank you for your attention thus far to my question.
Balasubramanian SBalasubramanian S (AVG) 
Michael, we will always be very careful with our answers.
A popup will appear to restart the computer and if you click on "postpone" from it, then you can see the message as 'restart is required' on the program interface of AVG Internet Security or AVG Antivirus. 
As of now, we do not have a screenshot of the restart popup or unable to produce it now as it automatically triggers from the program. 
Thank you.
Michael NybyMichael Nyby
Thank you very much for your assistance, Balasubramanian.

I was able to find an image.

User-added image

Could you please confirm that is the correct image for the present platform we are working with?

Thank you.
Balasubramanian SBalasubramanian S (AVG) 
Yes, this is the one, Michael.
Michael NybyMichael Nyby
Okay, thank you for confirming that.  And my apologies for being such a nuisance.

So that series of images and questions and your answers all related to item number two on that list on that page, titled: "Manually update the application".

Now I would like to cover some points related to item number one on that list: "Manually update Virus definitions".

First, an image of the top of the instructions, and notice the slight piece of #2 showing:

User-added image
And now the lower set, numbers 2, 3, and 4.  (Again some overlap is showing so that we know I am not fabricating anything here.  Of course, the link to that page is in the first post above.)

User-added image
And we can see once again that we have that reference to a possible request to restart after a virus definition update.  I have to assume, Balasubramanian, that you are again unable to post an image of what that restart button/mechanism/panel might look like, correct?

If you can, that would be great.

Would you happen to know if it would look anything like that image you confirmed to be correct for the application update?

In the meantime, I am continuing to hope I can find an image, as I did that one for the application update.

If anyone else has a screen grab of the image for the restart mechanism after a virus definition update, please help us here.
Priyanga SekarPriyanga Sekar (Sitel)
Hi Michael, 

Yes, I agree that restart prompt image is not included in this article (https://support.avg.com/SupportArticleView?l=en&urlName=Update-AVG-Antivirus&supportType=home) . But we mentioned in the article that a restart may occur. This is because reboot is required only for the critical updates of AVG in order to implement the changes. 

I confirm that prompt you receive is the one usually appear after an update (both program and virus definitions).

Else, you will see the message 'Restart is required' on the main interface of AVG program. 

If I can be of any help, please feel free to contact us. 

Michael NybyMichael Nyby
Thank you very much for your attention to this thread, Priyanga Sekar.

And I have not been able locate any image, as I did with the instructions for manually updating the application.  We'll be getting back to that, though.

In the meantime, let us look at the instructions related to setting the application update to automatic:

User-added image

Obviously, I placed that red box around the target for this post.

And now an image of what we see after the settings have been finished:

User-added image

What we read inside that red box I used for highlighting has me very perplexed:

"No actions are required from you."

It is my understanding from research that all application updates require a restart.  If no action is required by the owner of the computer, how will that restart be done in a safe way?

It does not seem likely that your engineers would design a program that would turn off somebody's computer without first warning them.  Or asking them.  Or whatever it is that happens.

What happens?  Just how is that situation configured?
Balasubramanian SBalasubramanian S (AVG) 
You are most welcome, Michael.
We would like to clarify that AVG will not automatically restart the computer.
Unless user selects the necessary option, no action will be taken by the program.
Michael NybyMichael Nyby
"Unless user selects the necessary option. ..."

Please excuse my question, but what option could the user be selecting?
Balasubramanian SBalasubramanian S (AVG) 
Michael, if you click on "remind me later" option appearing on the restart popup, you will be able to know about the available options.
Michael NybyMichael Nyby
Let me please check that you are referring to a popup that shows during the operation of the automatic updating program for the application updates?  We are NOT now referring to the manual updating.

Please excuse my being overcautious here, but it is most important we are all clear that I started referring to the automatic mode four posts up where I displayed the images for the setting of the automatic mode --- "Manage automatic application updates".

Thank you for your continued assistance.
Dinesh KrishnanDinesh Krishnan (AVG)
Yes, Michael. Once the program is automatically updated, you'll be notified about it through the prompt that says restart required, from where you'll be able to manage the action to be taken. Thank you for your understanding in advance!
Michael NybyMichael Nyby
In that case, Dinesh Krishnan, we (you and I and your colleagues) have identified another very specific problem of incorrect information being displayed to the customers:
"No actions are required from you."

That statement that no actions are required is incorrect.

In fact, I am step-by-step putting together a picture of a company that is making claims of being very professional, but seems to have a very low respect for some of its customers.  I state "low respect" because there is clearly a lack of professionalism in the interactions between this company and certain members of its customer base.

That is no idle claim I am making.  I am proving it step-by-step and taking many hours of hard work to do that.

And that is what we have just found right here in this thread and is culminating in this particular post.

And I am not even close to finished, and that is very unfortunate for not only myself, but the many customers that are very inconvenienced by all of these problems I seem to be uncovering.

Something has to be done about this.

And, in case anyone is wondering, I am not doing all this work for the benefit of the company.  Yes, the company could benefit, if they don't ignore me.  I am doing this because there are so many humans out there that really get easily lost in a user interface world that is built like this company has here.

The product's user interface has many serious flaws.  This forum's user interface has many flaws.  And there is sloppiness in the documentation, as well.  As we have proven here.

And I am still waiting in that other thread for the second level of the support team to make an appearance.  I already know who that will be from running into him during all the earlier research I have been doing.

By the way, I am next --- in about ten to fifteen minutes --- going to go to a group of very intelligent people on the Net and ask them if they'd like to review my work here thus far, because it is time to bring in some outside experts.

Frankly, my frustration levels are climbing too high and I need outside help.

Anyway, we have identified one very clear error in this company's documentation, as long as your answer is correct, Dinesh Krishnan.

Apologies for the lengthy post.
Balasubramanian SBalasubramanian S (AVG) 
Michael, we appreciate your efforts and time.
Let me clarify about the statements provided in our update article: https://support.avg.com/SupportArticleView?urlname=Update-AVG-Antivirus.

> Automatic update (enabled by default): updates are downloaded and installed automatically on a regular basis. No actions are required from you.
> Ask when an update is available: notifies you when an update is available. Your confirmation is required to complete the update.
> Manual update (not recommended): updates are not automatically installed and you are not notified when a new update is available.
> Enable streaming updates (enabled by default): downloads micro-updates continuously as new malware is discovered.

The statement "No action required from you" means that the user need not perform any action in order to check/install the updates.
Both the download and installation will be automatically done by the program.
Thank you.
Michael NybyMichael Nyby
The installed application update requires a restart to become active, correct?

I mean, it may be "installed" but until a restart is done it is not active, correct?

And I used the bold font above so that it is clear I have NOT been asking in these most recent posts about the virus definition updates.
Balasubramanian SBalasubramanian S (AVG) 
Yes. The installed update will be working efficiently once the computer is restarted.
The explanation provided earlier is for AVG update, irrespective of its type.
Michael NybyMichael Nyby
Okay, so the application update was automatically installed and it will only be activated by a restart.

How, or when, will that restart happen?  Will the program ask the customer?  Will the program just wait until the customer turns off the computer, then turns it back on?

I am almost 99.9% sure the program will not do a restart without informing the customer beforehand. (Well, let me make that as 98.9% sure.)

Please explain how that restart takes place when that program for updating the application is in the automatic mode/setting.

Thank you.
Balasubramanian SBalasubramanian S (AVG) 
Michael, on any mode that you select for AVG update, a restart prompt will appear for some of the critical updates.
Only if user clicks on the restart, the PC will restart and then the installed update will be effective.
Michael NybyMichael Nyby
Thank you.

That confirms that this:
"No actions are required from you."

 -- is incorrect.
  • Some sort of "action" is required of the customer, even if it is to ask/click that the restart be done later.
Michael NybyMichael Nyby
Now the next area where there is a serious problem is there is no warning in that block of instructions about the consequences if the customer does not do the restart as soon as possible.

There must be an enhancement of the protection provided by enabling/activating the updated application, so the longer the customer waits, the longer there is a reduced fight-against-malware ability of the AVG application on that customer's computer.

Now the professional writers in the company might want to dispute my use of the vocabulary "serious" in that context, but if a customer were to take this company to court for that lapse in the instructions that customer might just find a sympathetic judge.

Is it really worth the risk?
Dinesh KrishnanDinesh Krishnan (AVG)
Your feedack regarding the statement in the restart prompt is highly appreciated, Michael. The concerned team might consider working on it in the upcoming updates.
Regarding the protection status after the update & before restarting the computer, you can be rest assured that the AVG components, AVG services running in background will carefully monitor the activities on your computer & protect it against emerging threats. Thank you for your understanding in advance!
Michael NybyMichael Nyby
The key word in my last post was "enhancement" which we will change to 'enhanced' and I have to assume that a new application version is an enhanced package to protect a computer and so it does not matter what the version that is being replaced does in the "background" it IS NOT going to be as "enhanced" in its ability to protect as the newest/latest application update could be in its ability to protect.

And it is interesting that you chose to use the vocabulary "emerging threats" because that new application is designed to do just that; deal with "emerging" threats and it could very well be a threat emerged that was the reason for the new application and so the computer is not protected from that newly emerged/discovered threat because the new application has not been activated.

Now we are not in the courtroom of any specific nation, but we sure are in the courtroom of public opinion and that is worldwide public opinion and if the employees at Avast can't see how this is starting to look negatively upon this company, then we shouldn't be relying on the same employees to be protecting us from some mighty smart bad people that write the code for the malware we are supposed to be getting protected from.

The bottom line, Dinesh Krishnan; the newest application we can activate on our computers is the best protection your company can provide.  That is a fact.  So where is that in the documentation which seems to be stating that the customer need not do anything when the application update system is in the automatic setting on a customer's computer?

Also, I am becoming less and less "assured" of your company's dedication to this job of protecting us, the longer these threads take to get my message across to you folks.

I have another thread about your absolutely awful Forum User Interface, and over there I have been very patient, weeks of patience, and here I suspect we will be well into 2020 before any executive in this company realizes that I am serious about getting results.  Then we might think it will be 2021 before anyone in this company actually gets around to rewriting the book, IF they recognize there is a problem.

If you folks were players in some professional football league, you'd be way down at the bottom of the rankings when it comes to respect for the customer.  I mean true respect by actions, not just words.

I know you contract workers work very hard to help the customers here, Dinesh Krishnan, but this is more than a simple request for help from you and your colleagues.  This is an attempt to actually help your company do its stated job better.
Shawn EnglemanShawn Engleman (Avast)
Hello Michael. Thank you very much for your time and patience, and I apologize for the delayed follow-up. My name is Shawn, and I am writing to you on behalf of the AVG senior support team. I will gladly help you.

Your articulate feedback is very much appreciated, and I assure you, does not fall on deaf ears. Upon reviewing the exchanged dialogue, quite frankly, I too agree with your point that the interpretation of "No actions are required from you," is not correct.

Given your valued feedback, the referenced support page, https://is.gd/ZuYjiW, has since been revised to reflect proper interpretation of said comment. Furthermore, as you pointed out, the support page has been revised to include, "AVG needs to restart your computer" image(s), as applicable to the support page.

Let us know if there is anything else we may help you with. Regards, Shawn
Michael NybyMichael Nyby
Firstly, my apologies for the delay in acknowledging your work and post here in this thread.

As I am sort of rushing this response/post because I am late, you'll have to allow me a tad more time to review the changes your team made and then offer my thoughts as to the changes made.

But I admit that it does make a soul feel a tad better to see that the time and effort was of some value to others.  That's the key point; helping other folks on the Net that might be using your products understand the phrasing and images used in the basic documentation that can frequently start their relationship with your company, possibly even before they download the software.  Many times, of course, after they download your software.  And possibly even more often, when an emergency has arisen and they are looking for answers.

So let me get back to you, please.  I suspect it won't be within the next 48 to 72 hours, though.
Dinesh KrishnanDinesh Krishnan (AVG)
Appreciate your efforts & valuable time that you've spent in notifying this to us. We're glad that the concerned team has revised the support page. 
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