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David Freedman Why are virus definitions not updating?
I own AVG Ultimate and hence have AVG Internet Security installed on several of my family's PCs. All of them have stopped receiving virus definition updates since 11 November. Stuck on virus definition 191111-0
Attempting manual updates of either virus definitions or the program (by pressing "CHECK FOR UPDATES") has no effect. Definitons are not updated.
Given AVG normally has several sets of virus definitions per day, this seems suspicious and, indeed, there have been numerous examples of this fault occurring in recent years, documented in fairly fiery threads on this forum, such as this one.
On one machine (to experiment) I have followed instructions from previous instances on this forum where the flow of virus definitions had seized up.
1. Update the software using the downloadable offline updater (aviupd.exe)
RESULT - No effect. Virus defs still stuck at 191111-0
2. Uninstalled AVG and user the product Cleaner/Remover (avgclear.exe) and then reinstalled, logging in with my username and password to restore the AVG Ultimate credentials
RESULT - No effect. Virus defs still stuck at 191111-0
As this seems to be affecting more than on installation it would seem to be a problem in the software, not in local installations.
Here are two screenshots that might be of use:
Update page from the product
Content of the virus definitions folder (which seem to show folders representing unsuccessful attempts to load more recent virus definition sets)
Can you escalate this as necessary as has been done in previous instances,please? That seems to have worked in the past....
Cheers,
David
PS Appalled that I have to upload screenshots to 3rd party location on the web in order to add to this post. Why can't I simply drop them into the post and upload to AVG???
Attempting manual updates of either virus definitions or the program (by pressing "CHECK FOR UPDATES") has no effect. Definitons are not updated.
Given AVG normally has several sets of virus definitions per day, this seems suspicious and, indeed, there have been numerous examples of this fault occurring in recent years, documented in fairly fiery threads on this forum, such as this one.
On one machine (to experiment) I have followed instructions from previous instances on this forum where the flow of virus definitions had seized up.
1. Update the software using the downloadable offline updater (aviupd.exe)
RESULT - No effect. Virus defs still stuck at 191111-0
2. Uninstalled AVG and user the product Cleaner/Remover (avgclear.exe) and then reinstalled, logging in with my username and password to restore the AVG Ultimate credentials
RESULT - No effect. Virus defs still stuck at 191111-0
As this seems to be affecting more than on installation it would seem to be a problem in the software, not in local installations.
Here are two screenshots that might be of use:
Update page from the product
Content of the virus definitions folder (which seem to show folders representing unsuccessful attempts to load more recent virus definition sets)
Can you escalate this as necessary as has been done in previous instances,please? That seems to have worked in the past....
Cheers,
David
PS Appalled that I have to upload screenshots to 3rd party location on the web in order to add to this post. Why can't I simply drop them into the post and upload to AVG???
Appreciate all your efforts.
Let me check with our senior team and expect a reply from us soon.
Your patience is much appreciated.
We appreciate your patience.
Our developers are aware of this issue and they are working on high priority to fix it.
We would like to clarify that the program is able to receive daily virus definitions updates and install it. The problem is with the date appearing incorrectly.
We request you to enable "streaming updates" in AVG Internet Security settings.
Click on "Menu-->Settings-->Basic Protection-->Update-->More options" from AVG Internet Security to see the option.
Thank you for understanding.
I can't seem to show you a picture of the directory where all the action isn't, due to your convoluted process for uploading images but the description is this.
There is a folder that holds definitions [C:\Program Files (x86)\AVG\Antivirus\defs]. Within this there are:
Latest=19112500
I assume this is the file that reports to the AVG interface the currently live definitions version.
This looks very much to me as though the live definitions are NOT up to date. The live definitions are indeed the ones in the folder without the "_stream" suffix and which have the older date stamps and unless you claim your software updates definitions and then resets the time and date stamps on these newly updated files with older time and date values (why would it do that?) it seems the newer definitions are being staged in the folders with the "_stream" suffix but not getting installed.
What happens at present is that definitions are updated sporadically and then get out of date for 2 or 3 days, with the multiple "_stream" folders building up showing subsequent dates and sequential versions. I have seen up to five of these "_stream" folders at one time or another. Then something forces a new update through and the cycle restarts again. So at any given time definitions actually in use might be as much as 2 or 3 days out of date.
What used to happen with AVG is that I'd appear to get several definition sets each day - so 191125-0, 191125-1, 191125-3, etc. By the end of a day my definitions might be up to version 4 or 5. Then the next day I would start up my PC and find the new day's sequence starting with 191126-0.
I will check with our senior team and let you know the status here.
Appreciate your patience.
Given your detailed explanation, I actually suspect that your described problem, may be unrelated to the "Virus Definitions" updates situation (as earlier referenced), as your definitions are very outdated - both full definitions and streaming updates alike.
I am going to suggest that you perform a repair of your AVG AntiVirus installation. The following self help, https://is.gd/14lbHS, provides detailed instruction (including pictures). Thereafter the repair is performed, restart your computer, and check if your virus definitions were automatically updated (Via AVG Menu, General, Updates). The latest virus definition is version 191214-0.
Look luck. Let us know how this works for you.
Sorry but your response is way off base. The problem is that virus defs get as out of date as 2 or maybe 3 days. Then they will catch up and then lag behind again.
1. I have already done a repair installation as mentioned when I posted first in November. I have also completely removed and reinstalled AVG from scratch also mentioned in my first post. The problem persists and, in particular, a fresh installation does not FORCE a virus definition update.
2. The problem persists across several PCs. This is not just an issue for a single installation and, hence, suggests what I am describing is a feature of the software not a fault of a single installation.
3. Your comment about my "Virus Definitions" being so very outdated that it must be another problem is gibberish. The problem as I have described it is that the definitions seem to get stalled for up to 2 or 3 days. I originally posted 13 November 2019 and my defs were 191111-0 (2 days old). I posted further detail 26 November when my defs were 191125-0 (1 day old). My AVG installations - at least on the 3 PCs I can easily get to - are currently running definition 191214-0 released 14 December 2019 at 12:19. But today's date is 16 December 2019 not 14 December 2019 (and, indeed, it was when you posted you advice on 16 December but suggested the latest definitiions were dated 191214-0 not 191216-X). AT NO TIME have my definitions been "very outdated" but rather at most 2 days (though I think I have seen 3 days once).
4. On the PC I am currently using the C:\Program Files (x86)\AVG\Antivirus\defs folder contains 4 sub-folders named and date+timestamped as follows:
Folder '19121400' 14/12/2019 18:41
Folder '19121400_stream' 15/12/2019 09:30
Folder '19121500_stream' 16/12/2019 12:35
Folder '19121600_stream' 16/12/2019 15:41
The contents of the first folder are all date+timestamped 14/12/2019 18:41
Possibly there is no problem with this? But today as I type (at local time 16/12/2019 15:44) my live virus definitions are 51h 25m old. If that is the new expected behaviour, then please tell us all. Because that's not the way AVG used to behave. We used to get several updates *per day* which gave the impression of real-time updates. And, as I noted before, it looks as though there has been an attempt to stage definition updates for 15 November and 16 November in the last few hours. But nothing has come through as a full definition set on any of my family's PCs yet.
It is perfectly acceptable for AVG to tell me that you now delay releasing definitions for up to 72 hours if that is your new policy. I infer it is a new policy since you posted you last advice on 16 December that the latest is 191214-0 - the same that all my PCs already have. If the phenomenon of dated definitions is a fault of software, then it is a fault your own installation has too! What does your folder
C:\Program Files (x86)\AVG\Antivirus\defs
look like? If it is similar to mine then either you have the same fault OR this built-in delay is a new feature of AVG.
TL:DR If it's a fault, please fix it in your software; if the delay is a new policy decision, please inform us.
So - to help a productive dialogue that will be of use to all participants on this forum - PLEASE read what I have posted and do not ask me to try approaches that I have already told you I have tried (such as repair installation, or complete AVG removal, cleaning and reinstallation) unless you know for a fact that there is now a problem with the software which AVG has recently fixed in a newer build. Demonstrably reinstalling the same old version again and again (ver. 19.8.3108 - build 19.8.4793.541, released 19 September 2019) does not solve this problem of delays in virus definition updates.
Cheers,
David
Hi David,
Thank you for explaining this in detail.
We encourage you to check the latest virus definition update through Product user interface directly. You need not check for this information from AVG folders. The user interface shows last update date as 14th when we check it on 16th is the actual issue. Our Developers are aware about this issue and taking all necessary actions to fix it at priority. Meanwhile, the device will be fully protected via our streaming update service. APpreciate your understanding.
But let's take your comments at face value.
So you are telling me that when the Product user interface tells me the latest definitions are 14 December 2019, it actually means 16 December 2019.
And when I look in the C:\Program Files (x86)\AVG\Antivirus\defs folder I see a sub-folder that is called
19121400
which contains all the virus definition files in use which all have date+timestamp 14/12/2019 18.41 - so that they APPEAR not to have changed for 48 hours.
So your story is that AVG actually HAS actually updated all my PCs with 16 December 2019 virus definition files, but when they are propagated to all my PCs from AVG's server all the date+timestamps are reset back to 14 December 2019 18:41 and so they APPEAR like they're still the 14 December ones - even down to the time+date stamps.
That will be easy to check. I shall just take a copy of each set of files periodically. For example the ones in the 19121400 folder will have been different on 14 December than on 15 December or today because they will have been updated. So if I take copies of the folder and then do a file by file, bit by bit HEX comparison of the copies taken every few hours I will see differences as they are updated, even though they appear identical to the naked eye. That will be a great way to confirm that, as you claim, the definitions are actually changing and I am not simply stuck with the ones issued 48 hours ago. I'll do such a check the next time AVG says the definition set has changed!
Occam's Razor suggests they are simply not updating adn that AVG support representative are actively misleading us, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt for now.
Cheers,
David
David, I would like to correct the statement "latest definitions are 14 December 2019, it actually means 16 December 2019". You would probabaly see 14th date only even in AVG folders now. The "streaming update service" will happen every day. As you explained, please check the sub folders and check if you can see any difference in the name. Appreciate your efforts in doing all these steps.
As promised I made a copy of the '19121400' folder from 'C:\Program Files (x86)\AVG\Antivirus\defs' and then waited for the next update.
At 22:02 16/12/2019 AVG updated virus definitions, erased the '19121400', '19121400_stream', '19121500_stream', '19121600_stream' folders and created a '19121600' folder. The contents of this folder were all time+date stamped with 22:02 16/12/2019.
So - let's remind ourselves - AVG claims that even though this set of virus definition files is in place and may remain for up to 48 hours, it will be receiving fresh updates and I will have regular updates at all times, DESPITE there being no apparent change in these files. The only problem is that the user interface is inaccurately reporting out of date definitions.
So I made copies of the '19121600' folder several times over the next couple of days:
22:16 16/12/19
06:34 17/12/19
12:35 17/12/19
16:25 17/12/19
23:41 17/12/19
08:25 18/12/19
(NB all times and dates are UK.)
Comparing the first copy of '19121600' with '19121400' I found numerous changes to 42 out of 101 files, the filenames of 41 of which started with the string "db_" suggesting they are data files. Hence these were the files where I would be expecting to see incremental changes as the '19121600' folder was updated. I waited for the next update to occur. I then proceeded to check the six copies of the '19121600' folder.
1. Each had 101 files. For each of these files the file size in bytes and the time+datestamp were identical across all six copies. So it looked as though the contents had not changed.
2. I then selected a few of the 42 files that I might expect to have changed
db_pe3.dat
db_str.sig
db_evope.dat
and compared the six copies of each of these with a HEX byte by byte comparison.
They were all identical. Each of the six folders I copied holds identical copies of exactly the same 101 files.
This is now firm evidence: between 22:02 16/12/19 and 08:25 18/12/19 (34 hours) I was using the same virus definitions.
So what did change in this period? Well, the following folders were created:
'19121600_stream' (containing 257 files)
'19121700_stream' (253 files)
'19121800_stream' (50 files)
all filled with small files with filenames 'pkgyymmdd00000000##.bin' where the 'yymmdd' characters reflect the date and the final two '##' characters count up in hexadecimal from '00'
About an hour after my final copy, at 09:44 18/12/19, AVG's virus definitions updated - but only to 191217-0.
So now I have '19121700' folder with currently active definitions.
*********************************************************************************************
Can we have some honest coherent replies here, please?
In this thread AVG support staff have said:
"The user interface shows last update date as 14th when we check it on 16th is the actual issue."
This is false. It is not just showing incorrectly on the user interface. The issue is that the user interface is correctly showing that virus definitions are out of date - and can be up to 48 hours old. In the case I have reported above there were 35 hours between any changes to the active virus definitions (191216-0 installed 22:02 16/12/19, 191217-0 installed 09:44 18/12/19) and even then I only got an update to "one day ago".
In other threads AVG support has replied to the effect: "do not worry; even though it reports as 14/12/19 on 16/12/19, you actually do have the latest version". My investigation above clearly demonstrates this to be untrue: virus definitions are no longer being updated several times a day but only once every couple of days and, in the case I have reported above, not even with a latest version.
From the appearance of the folders with the '_stream' suffix it appears that attempts to update virus definition content are being made; these look like staging files for new versions. Perhaps not all the .bin files are making it through? I can tell your researchers which ones are missing from the hexadecimal sequence if it would be of help.
If this is a policy change (to delay definition updates), please say so. However, it appears to be a fault. It is NOT a fault with the user interface reporting things incorrectly, as AVG support staff constantly say, but rather a much more serious fault with AVG's updating routine genuinely delaying updates being received by users.
Can you confirm that your engineers are aware of this and working on the correct problem?
Yes David,
We are aware of this, our virus updates are delayed and released only once per day or two. Also the information in User inferface can be wrong.
Windows users are fully protected via streming update service. Version info for these updates is not displayed in UI.
To see when did you get the latest streaming update, you can navigate to the location C:\program files\AVG\AntiVirus\defs\
You can see folders with the suffix "_stream". Open the lastest one and you can see the streaming update packages. The file that has the latest timestamp is the one which got downloaded during the very recent streaming update.